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| ItC => no ticket for you! |
Friday was the e-EQE Pre-Exam (Part 1: 0930-1040 CET - 70 mins, part 2: 1100-1210 CET - 70 mins, part 3: 1330-1440 CET - 70 mins and part 4: 15000 - 1610 CET - 70 mins). Unfortunately, I was not able to get a copy of the questions, so I cannot share them. The EPO normally makes good copies available in the compendium in the week after the EQE.
- I am keeping my fingers crossed for all 2023 candidates 🤞🤞🤞.
- If you had any issues with any exam that affected you efficiency, or it was not inline with your expectations, please file a complaint. Formally, complaints must be formally filed no later than midnight on the day of the exam you are complaining about. Even if you have miss the formal deadline, submit all complaints that could affect your marking or performance as quickly as possible to helpdesk@eqe.org.
- You can also give a reason why you were not able to submit immediately after the exam, such as tiredness or needing to prepare for the next exam. Also realise that by filing a complaint, you keep your options open regarding an appeal. The first thing that is checked by the Disciplinary Board is whether you complained promptly after the exam. You are also creating a record while it is fresh in your mind. Even if it is something that you might feel is your fault, remember that the conditions under which you are taking the exam have been 100% determined by the EQE organisation and that you have no choice but to do it that way. Any issue that you may have is directly caused by these conditions.
- Some tips for the e-mails from case law:
- turn on the automatic read receipt confirmation
- ask them to confirm receipt
- ask them also to confirm that the email has been forwarded to the Examination Board
- explain why you were not able to submit the complaint on the same day of the exam
- keep bugging them until you get the confirmations.
- My suggestions to candidates after the eEQE
- Celebrate - you survived the third eEQE 🥇
- Put your TAB and WINKEY caps back 😀
- Manually uninstall Lockdown Browser: in Windows, it is found in the start menu under Respondus
- Be suspicious of any emails mentioning WISEflow or Lockdown Browser or Respondus. if you get any emails about "updates" of the Lockdown Browser, do not click on them. Only update through WISEflow.
- Preferably unplug all the extra cameras and microphones. Or at least cover the cameras when not in use.
- Take a couple of days off and celebrate 😉
- Don't read blog posts about model answers. They are usually made by EQE nerds who made the exams under relaxed conditions. They could still be wrong. Even if it is a perfect answer, no-one knows where all the marks will be awarded.
- The marking sheets are only finalised after the exam following discussions within the committees about what to accept and what not. For example, if there was an issue almost no-one dealt with, they usually compensate by awarding marks for something else that most people got. The exams usually have built-in fail-safes, so if you miss something, you will not lose marks everywhere.
- I heard some very disturbing news that candidates were not allowed late entry to the flows under any conditions. It was suggested that the Instructions To Candidates (ItC) have been amended on that point. In the version of Dec 2022 on the EPO website (why has these Instructions not been published in the OJEPO before the exam?):
- I. General
- 2. Candidates must enter the online examination environment as stipulated in point IV below at
the official start time
- 4. Candidates who enter the online examination environment after the official start time of a
particular examination paper or paper part may not make up the lost time at the end.
- 5. Candidates will not be allowed to enter the online examination environment more than
15 minutes after the official start of each examination part (flow).
- IV. Preparation and start of the examination
- 8. After completing the above steps, candidates must immediately launch the lockdown browser.
The lockdown browser launch procedure should be run at the start of the examination but must
be completed no later than 15 minutes after the examination start time. Otherwise, candidates
will not be able to enter the flow and sit the respective paper or part thereof.
- Note that in the last version that was actually published in the OJEPO before EQE 2023 (OJ 2022, A20), these sections read:
- I. General
- 4. Candidates who fail to log on to the FLOWlock browser by the official start time of a particular examination paper or part of a paper may not make up the lost time at the end unless, in exceptional cases, the invigilators decide otherwise.
- IV. Preparation and start of the examination
- 8. After completing the above steps, candidates must immediately launch the FLOWlock browser. The FLOWlock browser launch procedure must be completed no later than 15 minutes after the examination start time. Otherwise, candidates will not be able to sit the EQE.
- It is not clear to me from either version that this is a hard deadline which cannot be overruled in certain circumstances. Candidates can only take this exam 1x per year - if they are casually denied entry, their careers can be jeopardised and they can be severely demoralized.
- In at least one case, the candidate contacted the invigilators who stated that late entry was not allowed because they had printed out the materials and could have passed them on to someone else. So, the candidate was prima facie accused of cheating without any evidence or chance to defend themselves, and not allowed into the flow at all.
- It reminds me of the infamous Munich ticket machines pictured above that randomly don't accept credit cards, bank notes over 20 Euros, coins etc, and guide you through endless menus only to reset if you take too long to choose. No ticket for you!
- This absolute exclusion cannot be true - the normal procedure should be that the candidate is allowed to do the the exam and the "suspicious" situation is reported to the Examination Board.
- It is clear in ItC IV. Misconduct (OJ 2022, A20) only the Examination Board is allowed to take a decision regarding cheating, not the Secretariat:
- 3. Suspicious events during the examination pointing to potential cheating, e.g. suspicious looks in a particular direction, that are detected during the retrospective review of the video and audio recordings can be punished by the Examination Board under Rules 19 and 20 IPREE. The Examination Board may do so even after the examinations have been marked and the results published.
- 4. Other breaches of the instructions may also lead to consequences for candidates and may attract further consequences under Rules 19 and 20 IPREE.
I heard that the EQE secretariat is refusing to pass on any emails to the Examination Board which were not submitted via the form. This puts candidates in an impossible situation. The Disciplinary Board has been very negative about candidates who do not provide details about their complaints as soon as possible, and before marking. They are basically stopping you submitting info that you may need to rely on in an appeal. At least require a written decision from the Secretariat rejecting your complaint, so that you can either appeal that decision or submit it later during an appeal.
ReplyDeleteComplaints about not being able to complain can be sent to: EPO ombudsman
ombuds@epo.org (don't expect miracles, but at least you will get a written response)
Alternatively, contact your national epi PEC committee contact.
Alternatively, you can try to directly contact a member of the Examination Board.
That's terrible treatment of candidates. I think having to submit something on the day after a gruelling 6-7 hour exam is already unfair, as candidates need time and mental capacity to properly fill in their complaint with reasonable time to submit evidence. This is becoming a farce from Examination board.
DeleteAnonymousMarch 20, 2023 at 4:24 PM totally agree
DeleteHaving done this exam for the first time, and having used the last few years as basis for revision, I was so far shell-shocked at how this year's exams have been. No attempt made here to compensate for the online problems. Assumed everything works perfectly. In the B exam, my viewer went out of focus. I cannot believe that is even possible. So who will believe me when I say, I failed B because I could not see what I was writing for about 40 minutes? Crazy world!
ReplyDeleteSomething else has also changed this year. I have never seen such indifference and radio silence from the EQE organisation regarding problems and the ABC exam content. They also now seem to assume that everyone is cheating. Maybe that is the reason for the crazy ABC exams this year ? - make them so unpredictable that no-one can prepare or figure out the correct answer.
DeleteBut if they really believe everyone is cheating, they also need to be honest about it, and give the national patent organisations at least a chance to organise test centers with invigilation. Or, like in the UK, allow larger offices to host candidates with invigilation.
I help candidates prepare for future exams, but I have no idea what they are going to do next year. I also have no idea how candidates should practice ABC in general to prepare, or how to practice in WISEflow. It is no longer a test of patent attorney knowledge or skill - it has become an expensive lottery for candidates.
I agree, AB have been very out of character with previous exams of the past and C too. What happen to making sure online exams are in line with previous exams. THEY ARE NOT. I also do not understand how one can cheat, especially for A and B where you are locked up in a room for the entire exam.
DeleteIn a fair system, anybody actually cheating should be punished. Unfortunately, they are assuming that everyone is cheating, so they are unfairly pre-emptively publishing honest people who have real issues.
DeleteFrom what I have read about online cheating, the best ways to discourage it are:
- provide relatively short tests
- provide a degree of randomisation on the questions presented to each candidate (e.g. such as in the US patent agent exam). They already do this for the Pre-Exam for the question order.
- provide tests which can be passed with a predictable amount of effort (i.e. if you do the preparation work, then you have a very good chance of passing - this was the case in the past for EQE)
- provide properly-functioning reliable software that works remotely, or arrange test centers with properly-functioning hardware / software
- treat candidates fairly and reasonably, taking into account the enormous amount of pressure they are under from their employer to pass
Deltapatents blog has been limited to registered users and does not allow anonymous comments anymore.It seem that the last posts of candidates personal experiences are annoying someone at EQE examination board.
DeleteIs that policy posted somewhere? I know that posting on Blogger sometimes does not work if you have cookies disabled.
DeleteIf you scan through the DeltaPatents "EQE" section of the blog, you might see that I wrote there yesterday that it would be good to implement something different from the automatic "Anonymous" selection. My view on this is that of course candidates should be able to post under an "alias", but if you look into the comments @ DeltaPatents, you will find some badly insulting stuff from people who either passed the EQE decades ago, work on the opposite side, or just look down on anxious candidates in general. If the change means that you have to create your own nickname before throwing shit at people, then it is a good thing.
DeleteIf they implemented that, then there must have been some extreme comments on both sides.
DeleteIt is also possible to set up an approval system for comments (IPKat implemented that, I think starting when the EQEs were cancelled in 2020).
@Gabriele sorry in which Delta section you read bad insult?
DeleteAround Paper C and the general EQE blog, there were some repeated "poetic" proverbs and proverbs in Latin. Concerning the one in Latin, I am not actually sure if it was intended towards the candidates or the EPO, concerning the "poetic" ones, they were in the spirit of: if you don't pass, you have no right to whine, whining is only for wimpy loosers (they were written in the style of poem recitation, so the wording was different, but the message was clear). The first time, you might still consider it a little stupid joke, but if you see it repeatedly, it gives the clear impression that some misanthrope is enjoying his/her anonymity.
DeleteI saw the above kind of strange entries before seeing some also more explicitly worded complaints about the EPO/exam committees.
Overall, to me it looked like a starting vicious cycle of misuse of anonymity.
Yes but candidates have the rights to share comments and informations whitout being tracked down too.
DeleteHi "Anonymous", I fully understand that the present situation is very frustrating and nerve-wracking, while waiting without any further information as to when the results (e.g., for the Pre-EQE) will be released. You may also see in the "main" DeltaPatents EQE blog that I wrote that I do understand candidates' needs to privacy.
DeleteBut at the same time, if the tone of the entries derails and is not spotted on time to rectify it (and as "Anonymous" entries cannot rectify them by themselves, they would need to be removed by the moderator), then there is basically no alternative to changing the commenting rules.
If I understand the change correctly, you can still create any profile for participating in the blog discussions (I don't think that you have to give your real name). And by the created profile, you may also amend your entry according to the moderator's request.
Thank you already qualified European Patent attorney Gabriele, anonymous comments never bother anyone and nobody cares about them until they start to became very criticizing against EQE Examination board. Deltapatents has chosed to censor this imposing a registration in which candidates could be tracked down by EPO and others. I have no problem with that I can give Delta even my real name and my EQE Reg. number if they want (since this is a forum for EQE candidates) but are they really prepared to treat this data in a proper manner? As Pete suggest above there is no policy posted anywere.
DeleteI heard that the EQE secretariat is refusing to pass on any emails to the Examination Board which were not submitted via the form. This puts candidates in an impossible situation. The Disciplinary Board has been very negative about candidates who do not provide details about their complaints as soon as possible, and before marking. They are basically stopping you submitting info that you may need to rely on in an appeal. At least require a written decision from the Secretariat rejecting your complaint, so that you can either appeal that decision or submit it later during an appeal.
ReplyDeleteComplaints about not being able to complain can be sent to EPO ombudsman ombuds@epo.org (don't expect miracles, but at least you will get a written response)
Alternatively, contact your national epi PEC committee contact
Alternatively, you can try to directly contact a member of the Examination Board
It is clear that there a lot of competing opinions behind the scenes, but all I am asking for is that candidates are informed well in advance what they can realistically expect. If there are plans to go back to in-person exams, this should be made known asap so that candidates can decide what is in their best interest. If non-native speakers are to be effectively blocked by requiring close to native language skills, then maybe it makes more sense for candidates to study the appropriate language than practice old exams.
ReplyDeleteEvery time a candidate fails despite adequate preparation, it is like being kicked in the head. Even after 1 failure, self-doubt starts to dominate their EQE preparation. Most attorneys are "control freaks" to a certain degree - you need to be able to keep your cases under control in spite of external influences. That makes the effect of failing much worse in some.
If candidates are facing several years of resits with random chances of passing, it might make more sense to find a part-time law degree and do that. I had a colleague who did that - it took him 5 years. However, he passed everything first time, and he said the workload was similar to a national + European training. He also had a lot more work options open to him after qualification.
The EQE system should respects candidates enough to be honest about the exams that they are preparing for.
Why no pre-EQE results yet? Any idea when they will be released?
ReplyDeleteHello Pete, would you consider a good idea to skip next EQE 2024 and start in 2025 with new EQE?
ReplyDeleteI am not Pete, but personally, I am not so sure that in 2025 that there will already be a new e:EQE. It would mean that the exam papers are already right now prepared in the new style, and that might, e.g., only happen for the more simple parts replacing the Pre-EQE. Additionally, being the first round of "guinea pigs" of a redesigned exam might also come with unexpected difficulties.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I would therefore not base the decision on when to start taking exams on the new e:EQE format being available.
I agree with Gabi. If we assume that they will produce the new exams within the current system, then they will need at least 2 years to switch. In the real world, outside the EQE, if you had to make new exams, you could easily make them within a few months.
DeleteIt is also not certain that they will switch, and it is not certain that they will switch to the published proposal. I have also not seen any proposal for a different organisation, so I don't believe that this proposal will ever be implemented.
The best advice is still to prepare and try and get through the exams as quickly as possible. The preparation for D and the legal part of the Pre-Exam have been relatively stable over the last few years, and if you are well-prepared and avoid bad luck, you should pass.
Unfortunately, with the current ABC exam lottery, passing has little relationship to your preparation or tests of being fit to practice. The best advice is prepare, but assume that you will have to resit more than once. There is no time to think anymore, so you have to read fast, go with your gut feeling about your solution and type in as much as possible and hope that you do enough to pass. ABC (particularly C) are no longer tests of competence - just expensive lotteries, and unfortunately there is no sign of anything changing in the current system.
Know where most of the marks are usually awarded for each exam and answer those first.
Well let's cross fingers and hope in luck for this lottery. Sooner or later a neutralisation of 20 or 30 marks will happen again.
DeleteHi Pete, I have to agree about ABC being a lottery. I prepared so hard for papers A and B and the paper was nothing like the previous years with much more complicated subject matter to deal with.
DeleteBTW, the deal of pre EQE results is quite unexpected. Have they messed up the paper this year again. I'm dreading how long and how bad the main EQE papers are going to be too.
ReplyDeleteI have not seen any explanation for the delay. It is not very professional - how do we know that the results will not be delayed again?
DeleteAlthough I realise that any reasoning given will not clarify anything. Will it be unforeseen circumstances, technical difficulties, unexpected absence, change of responsibility, security breach, sudden illness or natural disaster?
But is Pre-Exam machine marked?
DeleteI don't know. They were trying to get it to work, but they have to be able to reliably deal with different candidates having different question orders.
DeleteWhat is your guess about the reason for the delay?
DeleteA professional exam conducted in such an unprofessional manner.
ReplyDeleteWhen should we cexpect results for main exam?
ReplyDeleteAccording to the participation letter that I got, the results are expected in July. Last year the results were available the first week of July.
DeleteCan anyone who only sat few papers last year register for the main 2024 yet? Have you tried?
ReplyDeleteThe pre-exam results have been withdrawn! I cant believe it. how difficult could be to mark a multiple question examination. This is insane.
ReplyDelete"The man of virtue makes the difficulty to be overcome his first business, and success only a subsequent consideration: this may be called perfect virtue."
ReplyDeleteWhat is the point of perfect virtue if success is secondary? I hope you are not a patent attorney - difficulty is irrelevant if you fail to file something on time. I hope you are not in an exam committee - just making something absurdly and artificially difficult does not make it worthwhile or you particularly virtuous. You are in the wrong business if you think that failure is acceptable when it unnecessarily affects other peoples' lives, careers or businesses.
DeleteYou are assuming too many things here, which is laughable. But that is ok - happens to us all as we age. The difference is, I am young and you are old ;)
DeleteBecause of these reasons, I hope you are not in the patent field for much longer - you are a dinosaur, I am the future. Anyway, you have revealed enough about yourself. Let us see who wins in the end ;)
P.S. That quote is a citation. Google it. It has nothing to do with me. I am just the conveyer ;) By the way, I am a patent attorney who actually does decent patent work, unlike this one distracted, aging individual I happen to know who is desperately trying to stay relevant and useful ;)
I was assuming that you were trying to make a point using the quotation. Can you explain what you meant? And please use simple words for the older generation!
DeleteThank you Pete for having sympathy with the candidates. I just passed this years pre EQE, and suffered a lot while waiting for the results. Your words lifted me up several times, especially knowing that other (prominent) people understand our situation helped. Thank you!
DeletePete you're the best! Can I work in your firm? ;D
DeleteI am glad it helped. Unfortunately, I am not looking to grow my firm. I choose to keep it small, and co-operate with other firms as much as possible. For example: we are setting up a network (www.soliopat.org) for solo and independent IP attorneys to provide an informal way of co-operating without losing independence.
DeleteI already had wonderful experiences managing people at my previous firm, but now I prefer to just do substantive patent work and other projects that I am interested in. I can also keep my overheads low.
What a humble man you are! May you never retire!
DeleteHave I upset you in some way? Do we know each other?
DeleteThank you so much Pete.
Delete"...I am a [PA] who actually does decent patent work, unlike this one distracted, aging individual I happen to know who is desperately trying to stay relevant and useful ;)"? Wow, who do you think you are? You're not fit to have Pete reply to your nonsense. Pete's help to hundreds of candidates has been selfless. Selflessness isn't something understood by many patent attorneys, but if you've been a candidate in the last 3 years you will likely have found yourself indebted to Pete for his sound advice. Thank you Pete, and shame on you Anonymous!
DeleteShut up Boris
DeleteJoris - thanks for your support :-). I am motivated by every candidate who can get through the EQE, and get on with the rest of their life!
DeleteI assume that this is the same "Anonymous" who was also posting quotes on the DeltaPatents blog suggesting that all problems are caused by candidates simply not being smart enough, knowledgeable enough or not working hard enough. Hopefully, "he" is not a tutor.
Delete- Passing EQE does not mean you are "fit to practice"
- A lot who fail are "fit to practice"
- The chance of passing is usually just dependent on time available to prepare
- Candidates with the best chance of passing have recently finished their studies, have no children, are not pregnant during the exam, have no responsibility at work, speak fluent EN/FR/GE, have a supportive boss who pays for courses and materials, and are first-time sitters.
Nice assertions. And your reasoning?
DeleteDear Anonymous, it's Joris and not Boris! You come across here as a real coward. Since you have such personal scathing comments to share, perhaps you should reveal your real name or leave this blog site alone. You're not impressing or helping anyone.
DeleteThere is no reasoning. As you say, I am quite old. That means that I have taught hundreds of candidates. I can share plenty of stories, particularly for candidates who are not from the richer countries of north-west Europe.
DeleteI was also a partner at a law firm managing patent attorney, so I have very direct experience of "fit to practice", and perfectionists who end up burning-out.
I also talk to a lot of colleagues from different countries, like at the INTA conference.
Do you have reasoning why I am not correct?
Release the main eqe results NOW!
DeleteI can't believe it, it is a multiple choise exam for crhist sake and they can't even give an answer to their own drafted questions
ReplyDeleteThat's life
DeleteThe only thing that might cause a problem is the different order that different candidates see the options during the exam. It is not a problem for individual candidates because the whole of the exam is saved, with the options and selections. But it might make it difficult for automatic marking.
Delete