It highlights the desire by the epi to have the EQE go ahead, as well as acknowledging many of the problems that would need to be solved.
"epi letter to the EPO regarding the EQE cancellation
You are no doubt aware that the March EQE session was cancelled, and that it is planned to organise a postponed session in September, if possible. In this regard, the Presidium has decided to send a letter to the President of the EPO, which is published here."
The purpose of the letter was to request the EPO's support so that every possible resource available in the EPO can be used to organise a postponed EQE 2020 - in particular, the finding of suitable locations at suitable dates, the registration of candidates, the invigilation, and above all the marking process. They note that the availability of additional marking capacity among epi members may be limited when the time line is shifted.
It also mentioned:
- ... no firm plans can be made until it is sufficiently certain that the epidemic will be under control, and trusts that every possible option is being explored.
- The ideal situation would be one where the postponed 2020 EQE is organised in such a way that the results are available by end October 2020, in time for the candidates to catch up with the normal timeline. Candidates who failed one or more papers of the main EQE could still register for the 2021 EQE and follow the special trainings for re-sitters.
- We trust that the Supervisory Board will take all necessary decisions to implement exceptions in order to make that happen. Exceptions one might consider encompass abbreviated registration periods for re-sitters. Another possible exception is to skip the pre-examination. In view of Article 11(7) REE, it would not be necessary to organise a pre-examination, but if one is organised, the candidates who passed the pre-examination would still have time to register for the 2021 EQE and follow the usual trainings.
- At the same time, the EQE 2021 should be prepared in parallel and should not be put at risk.
So, the epi is publicly expressing support to skip the Pre-Exam by pointing out that it is in line with the current exam regulations to do so.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, this is completely unfair and goes against the principle that all candidates should be treated equally. Its not just the pre-EQE candidates that are affected, candidates who are doing EQE candidates are just as affected but nothing is given for them.
DeleteIt needs to be fair for all candidates this year. Surely, the EPI/EPO would see this.
Like someone said in the other blog, allowing pre-EQE candidates to go through but give nothing for the main EQEs would only achieve resentment.
It also begs the question of why do we need pre-EQEs if candidates are allowed to skip it.
I think if you have passed the pre-exam, you are not similarly situated with those candidates that are yet to face it. This warrants differential treatment and hence could very well be "fair". Most importantly, you are not "competing" with them. Your passage depends only on your abilities, your grade is not curved, and if it was, this would actually work in your favor next year because there are going to be some unprepared candidates that would otherwise have been filtered. The argument I suffered so those coming after me must also suffer is weak. The argument they are getting something so I should also be getting something is also not very strong.
DeleteThe heart of the argument is always about fairness. Either you give all candidates something or you give nothing at all to everyone.
DeleteI'm not sure why we need pre-EQEs if candidates are nilly willy given a free pass. What is the point in them.
Utterly unrealistic, I would say, considering the situation the EPO has to face in the near future. But then hope dies last, they say. The best solution in my eyes would be to have an exam with more candidates in 2021. This could be done, the rest, I fear, is wishful thinking. But we will see ...
ReplyDeleteCees Mulder posted this on LI:
ReplyDeleteYes, the suggestion to organise the EQE in autumn is too uncertain. As long as there is no vaccin, bringing large groups together in a hall is a health risk. The EPO cannot set dates in September and then cancel again. In addition, there are many national patent attorney exams in autumn (I know of: GB, DE and NL); these exams are in autumn because the EQE is in ‘spring’.
The idea to exempt candidates from the Pre-Exam is a good one, but the EPO is afraid that once cancelled, the arguments to keep it (in the present form) are weakening. That is why they will probably wish to organise the Pre-Exam at all costs - perhaps also in a more electronic form.
Anyhow, for the EQE 2021, the EPO has to find locations which are ‘safe’ for transmitting any virus. Perhaps we get more computer exams.
It is like in oral proceedings before the EPO: the attorneys have been insisting on oral proceedings by video conference. The EPO was always against this (even for PCT Chapter II interviews with the applicant). And now, suddenly, all can be done by video conference.
I'm fine with pre-EQE candidates being allowed a pass as long as something is awarded or some form of compensation is available for main EQE candidates who are equally affected.
ReplyDeleteThe EPI proposal must represent both pre-EQE and main EQE candidates. So far, I haven't seen much suggestion or proposal from the EPI for candidates doing main EQEs. What is the EPI suggestion - these candidates are feeling forgotten and feel aggrieved that nothing is being done for them while the pre-EQE cohort are being allowed (allegedly) free passes.
Don't forget that many EQE candidates had to work hard to pass the pre-EQEs so there is a sense of injustice!
That is not true - they are promoting rescheduling of the Main Exam, but asking the EPO for assistance in arranging everything, including the marking.
DeleteYes you are right Pete and thanks for correcting. However, the EPI is open to the idea that pre-EQE candidates should pass but this can only be done (and in fairness) if something is given to the main EQE candidates too.
DeleteAs I said, I strongly believe all candidates who have been affected this year must be treated fairly. I hope you can agree with this.
There are two main issues:
Delete1) any waiver or unusual compensation can only be done by amending the Regulations. I am not 100% sure, but I think that requires approval from the Administrative Council. That will not be quick.
2) if the Pre-Exam is waived, there will be more at least a little more organisational capacity available to reschedule the main exam (or an individual paper)
So Main Exam candidates also benefit, but indirectly.
regarding your 2) main EQE candidates already do exams on different days to pre-EQEs and as I understand are marked very differently to main EQEs so I'm not quite sure how this would benefit main EQEs candidates. Perhaps you could elaborate on this point.
DeleteI still don't see how this would be fair for main EQE candidates although I agree that it is not an easy solution for main EQE candidates. We all want competent qualified EPA but we need to ensure that candidates are treated fairly.
Perhaps we can look at a reducing the contents for main EQE candidates.
But the idea that we compensate pre-EQE candidates and do nothing for main EQEs candidates does not sit comfortably with me.
DeleteYes - I changed my comment. I meant in the organisation - it makes no difference for the marking.
DeleteAnony makes a fair point. The basic principle of any examination process is to be fair to ALL candidates. You cannot give one set of candidates free passes but do nothing for the other set of candidates (even if they are different). An example is like giving students free pass at English GCSE in the UK but not allow A levels students a free pass of their paper (even though both students are equally affected).
DeleteIts completely not right. The system needs to be fair to all candidates. To me, that is the basic principle of an examination process.
As far as I can see, they are cancelling the GCSE & A level exams, but they are developing a formula to determine the grade (so pass or fail) based on mock exams, school work, teachers recommendation etc.
DeleteFor the EQE, there is no standardised course, so what do they have to go on?
-results on the pre-exam (legal / claim analysis split)
- any earlier main exam papers taken
... or your work as a trainee
- the number of applications drafted and filed
- the number of office actions
- the number of granted patents for which you wrote an office action
And then subtract the number of clarity objections for applications that you drafted
I think this is a good reminder of the different categories of candidates affected too:
Delete1) Pre-exam candidates: no previous marks from any EQE exam, so nothing to go on in terms of previous results. As often mentioned, could possibly be skipped.
2) Re-sitters close to passing: e.g. a candidate with 49/50/50/50. While hard from a "fairness" point of view, does anyone really think this hypothetical candidate is less qualified than someone who passed with 55/55/45/45? Giving free passes always has the "Passed EQE 2020*" problem, but altering compensation rules isn't quite the same.
3) The big problem - first time sitters of the main EQE: there just isn't any way to compensate for this - giving everyone a pass or extra marks would cause so many problems. I think the biggest problem is that these candidates would (justifiably) feel aggrieved if pre-EQE and re-sitters got some compensation and they didn't. This makes it really difficult to deal with 1) and 2) above without causing a lot of resentment and probably other problems.
I do find it a bit surprising that some want to give pre EQE free passes but at the same time they are absolutely against any sort of compensation for main EQE candidates.
DeleteThere should be consistency and siding with one group but not the other is going to create major problems. Main EQE candidates will see this as preferential treatment for pre EQEs students. It will be damaging.
If EPI are suggesting pre-EQEs be given free passes, they should also advocate the waive of one paper in main EQEs.
ReplyDeleteThe EPI could suggest pre-EQE candidates be given a free pass and suggest main EQE candidates to be given 10 marks per paper. This would be a satisfactory and fair compromise.
ReplyDeleteAny waiver or unusual compensation can only be done by amending the Regulations. I am not 100% sure, but I think that requires approval from the Administrative Council. That will not be quick.
DeleteIn these unprecedented times, nothing is impossible. The administrative council can do it
DeleteBut they will have many other priorities, and the first question they will ask is - what happens if we do nothing?
DeleteAnd not every 2020 candidate will be happy that there is a waiver for one or more paper or extra marks. It will follow you the rest of your career - the 2020* EQE passes. I know some grandfathers / mothers who took the EQE anyway because of a similar stigma.
DeleteThat is the difference with waiving the Pre-Exam - you do not gain a qualification. It is likely that 85-90% of those who registered would have passed based on previous years (as it was cancelled so late). So, really, only 10-15% of those candidates are treated advantageously.
What they can do with Main Exam is be very flexible about candidates using out-of-date or too new books, for example.
Allowing pre-EQE candidates to skip this year can only work if there is a rescheduled exam for main EQE candidates. If there is no exam this year then if pre-EQE candidates are given free passes, don't we all have the same problem in that double the amount of candidates are going to do main EQE exams. Its not a good idea. Better to do the exams but with more flexibility like you said. Maybe reduced exam content to compensate.
DeleteIf candidates are given an extra 5-10 marks - candidates will still need to achieve around 35-40 marks to pass. Incompetent candidates would score nowhere near 35-40 marks.
Deletepre-EQE 2018 had 70% pass rate so you can't say that 90% of pre-EQE candidates will automatically pass.
DeleteThere is a broader question as to why we need a pre-EQE exam at all.
The EPO mentions financial compensation. One way to make it fair to main EQE candidates is to pay for their courses like Delta Patents, CEIPI and others + books again. I think giving them the money to those doing main EQE exams this year to go on these "refresher" courses and allowing pre-EQE candidates to pass this year would be fair. Just a suggestion.
ReplyDeleteWhere does it say that the EPO will offer financial compensation? I think they were only considering whether they can reimburse the fees paid for the exam.
DeleteIt seems likely that either the EPO Academy and/or the epi will try and arrange some refresher courses. I dont see why there is an obligation to pay you back for the courses - you still have all the materials. Someone can quite easily make an overview of the legal changes.
This is just one option the EPO could explore. Everything should be looked at.
DeleteBoth set of candidates (pre-EQE and main EQE) are equally adversely affected by the events so both should be treated equally. I understand that it will not be easy and there will be no perfect solution but the basic principle of treating all candidates fairly must be upheld.
ReplyDeleteWhatever is decided, any impact on EQE 2021 must be manageable for the EQE organisation - they cannot deal with twice as many candidates for all the reasons indicated above (venues, invigilation, marking).
ReplyDeleteAnd I cannot see anybody from the epi or EPO (or national attorney associations) agreeing to just pass Main Exam candidates to get them out of the system. You don't need the qualification to do the work under supervision, just to work independently.
Would a coursework approach for main EQEs be a possible option here.
DeleteMy two cents: an EQE in Autumn 2020 is rather challenging. Perhaps a second EQE can be organized in Autumn 2021, in addition to one in March 2021 (and March 2022). That would reduce the delay for all candidates that need more than one attempt. As to the Pre-Exam, it could perhaps be done in Autumn 2020 e.g. only in Munich in a single hall and single sit; perhaps this time using laptops to allow for marking immediately after the exam.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like most European countries will keep social distancing measures even after lockdown and limit gatherings to 25-50 people until a vaccine is found (likely to be end of next year at the earliest)
ReplyDeleteI don't think we get any exams (national or European) for the next 2 years.
I agree - if you are thinking about holding the exam as it was before, it will take at least 1-1.5 years before a large number of people can be vaccinated.
DeleteBut the EQE can be adapted to make it more virus proof. To be able to go ahead in adapted form, the organisation need to be able to comply with the required precautions to minimise risk to the invigilators and candidates, but we don't yet know what they will be. Within Europe, there is no real agreement yet about how to deal with it, but I am sure that they will have common (international?) guidelines within the next few months. Just like after the 9/11 attacks.
It make sense to avoid some of the potential risks by being online (maybe not at home, but at a local testing centre) in some way, but that requires quite a few changes to the exam format.
I can't see them getting an EQE organised in different European states for September as the rules are not yet known and it is not certain there will be enough protective equipment. So they will likely miss the window for marking.
It would be better to use those resources to make the exam system less vulnerable to increase the chance of EQE 2021 going ahead. This should be seized as opportunity to modernise the exam and reduce the overhead/costs going forward.
For the national exams, there is only one set of national rules to deal with and presumably the numbers are more manageable.
I completely understand the difficulties the supervisory board faces in trying to mitigate this. I too agree that the EQE exams should be designed to have more flexibility in the system and modernise.
DeleteIf the EQE 2021 cannot go ahead (it is a credible scenario) then that will be 2 years that candidates cannot sit the EQEs. I'm raising this point because it will undoubtedly affect wages and job progression.
I have already been told that I won't get the increases this year as I won't qualify this year. I'm sure I am not the only one.
I do see issues with holding the EQE 2021 exam. It is indeed a complicated situation. Not everyone can be tested in time for the EQE 2021 exam so you will have a situation where some candidates/invigilators have been tested and some haven't.
DeleteI see computers/online testing as a possible way forward and since its open book, I think this is a good solution. You may have to reduce the contents of the exam or increase exam time (but I'm against increasing exam time as its already very long).
National exams can also make it open book and move to online/computer testing.
I think if the testing capacity is greatly increased over the next months, it might be possible to test all candidates shortly before the exam...then it might be possible to have the exam with an increased number of premises, with a distance of 2-3 meters between candidates....I think there is a number of possibilites of having an exam before 2022...
ReplyDeleteAs a side note to national exams: The organization for the German exams scheduled in June is currently going on as usual...official summons were sent a couple of weeks ago and I do not know of any plans of cancelling the exams...alas, there are only 30 people sitting the exam in June....but also school exams are supposed to take place in Germany this year and in one federal state have even taken place during the last weeks (with enough space between people)...
I do not think that important things like qualifying examinations as the EQE can be postponed for the next 1.5 years....people are also meeting at work, in shops etc....we cannot stop all contact between people...
In the UK, exams this year have been cancelled for June and all university exams have been cancelled.
DeleteI think key workers i.e. those who work in hospitals etc will be given first priority for testing. Others are much lower on the priority list so there is no guarantee that all candidates are going to be tested before next year.
The coronavirus has surely made us all stop and think what is most valuable to us. There is so much more to life - Maybe its also time to stop and reassess a number of things including the burden of constant examination in this profession.
ReplyDeleteNo exam in 2020; Therefore anyone who meets all other requirements apart from having passed the pre-exam can enroll for Main Exam 2021.
ReplyDeleteCandidates enrolled for Main Exam 2020 will have those enrolments and fees carried forward to Main Exam 2021, but can of course enrol for additional paper(s) or un-enrol from paper(s) they had enrolled for in 2020.
http://documents.epo.org/projects/babylon/eponot.nsf/0/cda002e5755d7730c125854c00496e80/$FILE/Decision%20of%20SB_EN_20_04.pdf
http://documents.epo.org/projects/babylon/eponot.nsf/0/49492721c255256ec125854c00498eac/$FILE/SB_communication%2020_04_EN.pdf
I am glad they made the decision now. I am still trying to figure out the consequences of "Given the prevailing, exceptional circumstances, and pursuant to Article 3(1) REE, anyone who so wishes will be allowed to enrol for the 2021 main examination, provided that the conditions laid down in Article 11 REE are fulfilled." I assume it means that as no PE was held, then it is not a requirement for Main Exam 2020. It may also mean that they will be flexible on the pre-registration dates as a candidate (which you have to do at the start of your professional activities).
ReplyDeleteEpi is useless as usual!
ReplyDeleteIn what way?
DeleteI'm not the anonymous poster above, but I really think that some compensatory marks should have been offered for those main EQE 2020 candidates sitting the main EQEs in 2021.
DeleteThey have been exactly as inconvenienced as the candidates who had to sit exams in overly-cold exam halls a number of years ago, and should be given the same compensatory marks (10 on each paper I understand). Fresh 2021 main exam candidates have already received consideration in being given a free pass on the pre-EQE.
Oh, and just in case this needs spelling out for anyone - yes, 2020 main exam candidates have been inconvenienced. Primarily, this is because there is a limited amount of material with which you can prepare for the exams and many candidates will have exhausted it all in the run-up to the 2020 exams before they were cancelled. They cannot simply re-study this material, their sharpness is gone.
DeletePractical experience unfortunately doesn't help you pass the exams as the expectations of the examiners so often diverge with actual practice (e.g., risking an overly-broad claim is fatal in Paper A, but in practice given the choice between a possibly slightly over-broad claim and a definitely overly-narrow claim, you should err on the side of broadness, relying on the dependent claims as back-up).